(no subject)

[growler_south]

Bloody hell. You cant swing the word 'Reincarnation' around in here without knocking into a big tin of Karma.

Karma, as most people understand it, is an imaginary scorekeeping device. Karma is calculated through an external value system which controls through the application of guilt and promise of reward. Heaven and Hell do a similar job in the christian world.

I believe karma, as a concept, is a valuable one: that which you sow, you reap. The bit I take offence to is the imposition of the external value system- since everyone's experience of reality is their own, it makes more sense to develop one's own value system.

If the ultimate aim of reincarnation is to fully experience your own divinity, surely taking someone's (or some organisation's) values wholesale and making them your own is about as sensible as thinking you can learn to cook by microwaving a TV dinner.

Developing your own value system is hard work. It takes constant vigilance, compassion, and respect for your own divinity and then, when you lapse, humility and forgiveness. Like moving house or servicing your car, for most people it's just more convenient to have professionals do it for you.

An easier way to your own values is to start with some pre-existing ones, and then look at them critically, one by one. If you want to service your own car, you start with the easy jobs, but of you keep challenging yourself and trying just one more, slightly more difficult task, eventually you'll have a thorough understanding of how the car works. Its the same with values. Just keep questioning one or two things you 'believe' until you're confident you believe them. Or throw them out if they're not sensible.

Anyway, I just happen to believe that figuring all this out for yourself, learning to experience your own divinity, takes a long time. Definitely more than one lifetime. And that's where we start swinging that R-word around.

Comments

[whiskerfish.livejournal.com]

You said the R word?!?!?!

[growler-south.livejournal.com]

A bit too loudly, I suspect.

;-)

[torsvan.livejournal.com]

Hmm - Karma. One of the most misunderstood words in the English language since it was introduced, say 100 years ago? I think that a lot of people who have Judeo-Christian backgrounds tend to think in terms of 'oh that's bad - so if you do something "bad" then you will get what is coming to you ie: something bad'. I think this is an oversimplification, and an attempt to put a template of those religious ideas onto something that is in actuality quite different.

In Brahmanism/Hinduism, and in Buddhism, (where the concept of 'Karma' arose), it is not divine retribution; it is not a judgement... there is no 'scorekeeper'... it is just a manifestation of energy dynamics. Example: You rub two sticks together, it will produce heat. Almost, but not exactly, like basic physics, but with the energy that is in constant interplay within the different levels of our existence. It also has to do with the concept of rebirth/reincarnation... ie: if kill and eat animals, you will become an animal who will be eaten..... My point is that Karma is a very complex philosophical and religio-spiritual concept. People can have their own ideas about it - and if they work for the individual involved then great... but we must remember the traditions that Karma came from and the real meaning of it in their cultural and spiritual lives.

[growler-south.livejournal.com]

if you kill and eat animals, you will become an animal who will be eaten

...or have already been tha animal, and have fulfilled your role by being eaten.

That said, a truly compassionate person who respects the divinity in all beings would not actually want to harm an animal if there were other options. Which raises an interesting thought: christianity teaches that to find god, you must not do [these things], whereas I believe those teachings are actually meant to be the opposite, they are supposed to be promises that *once you find God* you wont *want* to do [these things]. it's a subtle distinction, but one that offers far more hope than the implied guilt/punishment model of the 'thou shalt nots'

How does Budhhism present these fundamentals? Does Buddhism say "Dont eat animals and you'll find enlightenment" or does it say "Find enlightenment and you wont want to eat animals"?

[torsvan.livejournal.com]

Yes - It is complex - were you the eater or the eaten? It's an interesting moral quandry.

Some streams of Buddhism say that it's ok to eat animals as long as the animal was not specifically killed intentionally for you. Some streams (especially in Thailand) say that it's ok to eat meat, but not on specific holy days (such as Vesak etc).. Some say that to be Buddhist means no meat at all.. same with Hindus - there are some who make sure that everything is "strictly vegetarian"... it goes on and on...

But I guess it is up to the individual involved really... I suppose if an enlightened person may not choose to eat meat on compassionate grounds.. but how many enlightened people do you actually meet..?

[growler-south.livejournal.com]

Oh and I'm not sure if you're agreeing, disagreeing or expanding on my entry- but for the record, I dont understand karma as being a scorekeeping device which determines how many reincarnation points you have, but I understand how it is misused.

(Sidenote: I just had an amusing thought of getting Karma Points statements in the mail: "this month you have earned 32,716 Karma Points. That puts you only 321 points away from being reincarnated as a hamster!")

[torsvan.livejournal.com]

hee. I was just adding that it was usually misunderstood out of its cultural/spiritual/religious context.

[barbarian-rat.livejournal.com]

thanks for this postin' The last comment really made be laugh.
I think you have a good understanding of karma .... so sally forth!